Gator69 makes a number of moral arguments about judgment, the civil law, and temporal punishment, starting here:
and culminating here:
He requests a response from me. Here is my response.
Gator, to judge morality is to judge actions rather than people.
Ask yourself what is the meaning of this:
Do you not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matter? Know you not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgement.
We know we are not to judge individuals guilty; therefore it is something else we are to judge.
In those days there was no king in Isra’El, every man did that which was right in his own eyes.
Without judgment of morality, everything is equally good in our eyes. But what is evil according to God cannot possibly be counted good by us. Therefore we cannot call everything equally acceptable.
We don’t vote in the statehouses because we cannot hold those offices, and we don’t control other people’s private houses. But we have our freedom of speech to call something evil, wrong, unjust, or unacceptable, just as you do. And I note that you very much like to exercise that freedom, and you liberally do so.
We are no threat to you whatsoever. It is you who would threaten us for expressing our views, because you hate them, you view them as evil, and you yet believe in your supposed authority to take retribution, to use the carnal power of the sword in the name of justice, and in the name of the Lord. You have already told me I have trampled your human rights and am acting outside the law, by simply doing the same thing you’re doing. You don’t repudiate the doctrine of retribution for injuries against you, so by implication you would support punishing me for such perceived transgressions. While your government sword could theoretically be used simply to force me into a prison cell, there are some on your side who would only be satisfied with capital punishment for speaking as I’ve spoken to you.
When you speak of rights, you are speaking of law. But it seems that you don’t really understand the law of which you’re speaking.
A covenant is a contract, and provided it is duly executed, it is legally binding on all who agree of their own free will, who are of sound mind.
There is a principle over which we’re arguing, and it’s a principle you have thus far not acknowledged: the principle of the durability of an association of free people, unencumbered by the efforts of hostile outsiders to destroy it through various means, including laying traps for the destruction of its people. Much of this may be through brainwashing, much more may be just through well-planned sales strategies. This is similar to the tactic of divide-and-conquer, in which the people recruited from within are aware that they’re being recruited. But the effect is the same, either way. Now you say this is none of my business if this happens. I respect your opinion on this, because my interpretation on this has also moved somewhat as I’ve matured in Christ. But you should also respect mine, because I can make an irrefutable argument from Scripture.
There is a second disputed principle over which we’re arguing. This is the principle of forgiveness of others in exchange for forgiveness of ourselves by God. You are prepared to exact punishment for crime, so you do not forgive all transgressions. Therefore you have not accepted the covenant which is offered to you. And there is only one covenant which is offered to you. This is not a cafeteria plan.
By denying the need to forgive transgressions, you are denying the Lord. So unfortunately, He will deny you as well. You think you act and speak with authority because you think you have accepted Jesus as your Lord. But by your testimony, you have not.
And since you think you have the true faith, you just assume that I have the same belief about the meaning of forgiveness. Thus you arrive at the assumption that I seek to interfere in the affairs you refer to. YOU ASSUME WRONG.
You say, who are you to judge morality? I say, who are you not to?
“Set the trumpet to your mouth. He shall come as an eagle against the house of Ihwh, because they have transgressed my covenant, and trespassed against my law. Isra’El has cast off the thing that is good: the enemy shall pursue him.”